Beth
Hello and welcome to On A Limited Budget, the series where we explore how you can build a thriving workplace culture without breaking the bank. I'm Beth, Content Manager at Great Place To Work UK and I'll be your host today. Great Place To Work is the global authority on workplace culture.Every year we get direct feedback from over 10 million employees around the world, working across a range of companies in various industries and sizes, telling us how they really feel about their employer. Diving into the data, we noticed that many organisations share a common challenge, how to build and sustain a great company culture in a way that's cost effective but still impactful. Today we're exploring one key element of this critical challenge, building an effective employer brand on a limited budget.Having a robust employer brand strategy is key to standing out as an employer of choice, boosting recruitment and retention and fostering employee advocacy and pride. I'm joined by Chief People Advisor Jonathan Mercer and Director of Consulting Seema Shah. During our conversation you'll hear Jonathan and Seema share practical strategies and insights on how to build an authentic employer brand that reflects real employee insights and company values.Join us as we explore employer brand on a limited budget and discover how even the most budget-conscious businesses can effectively communicate their unique employee value proposition and company culture. So hi both, it's lovely to be here with you today. Do you want to just quickly introduce yourselves?
Seema
Sure, so hi, I'm Seema Shah, I'm Director of Consulting at Great Place To Work UK and yeah we kind of work with clients post-survey, really helping them to understand their insights and then think about kind of how to really take the results forward into kind of actions and interventions as well.
Jonathan
Yeah, thanks for having us Beth, really appreciate it. For anyone who's listening, my name is Jonathan Mercer and I'm the Chief People Advisor at Great Place To Work. I obviously play quite a large part in our employer brand and how we shape that as an organisation.I think I've sat on both sides of the table in regards to worrying about margins and how to make the most of what we can do on a tight budget while still holding senior people leadership roles where culture, leadership and standards really mattered and I think the big thing for me when what we talk about the subject today is about practicality and how we can make things happen within our organisations.
Beth
All right, thanks guys. So obviously we're going to be talking all about employer brand today so we'll start with the basics and Seema, if you want to start for anyone who's unfamiliar, could you give a quick overview of exactly what an employer brand is?
Seema
Sure, so I guess essentially employer brand is your reputation as an employer and it's not just really your reputation with your current employees but it's also those employees that have previously worked with you as well as potential employees, future employees and you know a lot of people think about employer branding as you know the logo and the kind of how we're advertising the organisation but actually it's so much more than that, it's very much driven from the culture of your organisation and also I guess the values that very much underpin that culture and the behaviours that drive your values as well. So it's very much looking at kind of the overarching employee experience as well and that's kind of where I guess you know the branding really can sort of sit under as well. So it's really thinking about how people are really talking about what it feels like to work for the organisation or for your company essentially.
Jonathan
I think for me to echo what Seema's said there, it's the lived experience of working in your organisation, it really affects everything, how leaders behave, how decisions get made, how people are treated, when things are going well and when they're not and I think one of the big things that we like to talk about is whether you like it or not, you already have an employer brand, the only real question is whether you're shaping it intentionally or leaving it to chance and I think employer brand for me is what people say about you when you're not in the room.
Beth
Yeah thanks guys, I think that's really helpful for kind of setting the scene to start with. So we also hear a lot about the term employee value proposition when it comes to employer branding, the kind of inseparable, they're two concepts. So how does your EVP play into your employer brand?
Jonathan
I think when we talk about EVP for me it's the promise that you make to your people, it's why somebody joins, why they stay and why they choose to give their best for an organisation. Your employer brand is the proof of that for me, it's how that promise actually shows up in a day-to-day. We see it all the time in what we do and internally in our organisation, people and organisations say they value development, wellbeing, fairness but unless people can see that reflected within the leadership behaviours, the progression, pay decisions and how issues are handled, it just doesn't land.When an EVP and lived experience line up, that builds trust and when we talk about employer brand and what we do, trust is one of the biggest things that an organisation needs to succeed. When they don't line up, disengagement creeps in very very quickly.
Seema
Yeah definitely, I think what I've seen as well recently, I've been talking to a lot of exec teams and a lot of our clients and they're going through, you know, a lot of them are going through real sort of changes in the organisation, restructures, adversity essentially and it really fundamentally goes back to, you know, while they are going through all these changes, how are leaders behaving through that and that's very much, you know, it's linked into this piece around the kind of employee value proposition but what I've also been talking to leaders about is how important or how it becomes even more important to really articulate and strengthen your EVP during these kind of uncertain times and I think really kind of articulating that just so that actually, you know, when you are going through these changes, you're essentially, you know, you're not at risk of losing your talent as well, so you're just kind of proving, you know, what have we still got as an organisation that we are really offering you as an individual and what it means to you as well, so like Jonathan said, you know, the development and progression opportunities, recognition, how we really value wellbeing as an organisation as well and I think, you know, EVP is not just about that financial reward, it's so much more, so I think that's again really important how leaders communicate that and really embed that into the organisation.
Jonathan
You're so right Seema, I was reading the other day that around 88% of people say that culture matters more than pay and that's a huge obvious part of the EVP and especially in the younger generations who are coming into the workforce, culture just plays such a massive part and that's why it's so important when we're talking about brand on budget that we get culture right and that those leadership behaviours and communication are the key of everything that we do.
Seema
Yeah, I think one of the things I definitely see is when we get the results from a survey and we actually try and understand well what's driving overall engagement, I hardly ever see the pay statement come out as a driver and so that really fundamentally tells you that actually what's really motivating people is so much more, it's around, you know, how leaders are behaving, the values of the organisation, all these other things which, you know, then really drive, obviously pay is an element and it's a hygiene factor, it's important but it's actually how do you really talk about this holistically.
Beth
Yeah and I think that kind of sense of authenticity that you guys were talking about there about making sure that kind of like lived experience matches up with what you say you're going to do and with what your employer brand is saying is so important from a kind of marketing perspective as well because I think when it comes to communicating externally if it's not authentic I think that is it quickly becomes obvious, you know, from what employees or former employees are saying and if it doesn't line up, you know, people are going to kind of catch on so I think yeah that kind of authenticity is something we'll probably touch on a lot today as well. So you've covered some of the benefits of an effective employer branding strategy already but I'm curious to know kind of why do you think intentionally nurturing your employer brand is so important?
Seema
I guess just to jump in there from my perspective it's, you know, I think Jonathan already said it that if you don't shape it, it'll get shaped for you and fundamentally I think it does, it's really key in terms of having this authentic employer brand because it really just makes people feel valued, that's what, you know, one of the big drivers of engagement is around, you know, people feeling valued for what they do but also, you know, they'll become more loyal to your organisation, you again, you kind of mitigate some of the risks around losing some of your talent and your, you know, future succession pipeline as well but also, you know, you're turning your employees into real advocates of your organisation but also your services and your products as well so again that's such a key thing and I think for me employer brand very much then links into just much more engaged workforces and we know kind of from all the research out there that, you know, engaged workforces, engaged employees will perform better and that kind of fundamentally, you know, really impacting on that bottom line as well and it's just quite interesting actually as well because when we look at those Best Workplaces, those, you know, organisations that make our Best Workplaces list, one of the statements we ask is around advocacy and 87% say employees would highly recommend their organisation as a great place to work and that's compared to, I guess, sort of the more average or the UK typical benchmark around that statement which is only 53% so you can see really how important from that kind of employer brand and advocacy piece it really becomes in terms of how engaged employees then are with their organisation.
Jonathan
To speak through that Seema as well, we talk about attracting new talent and people leaving and coming into an organisation and from a HR point of view it's one of our biggest metrics isn't it, our labour turnover rates and so on. Great Place To Work UK we've got an excellent labour turnover rate which I'm quite proud to talk about and mention but one of the key things that I like to explain to people and organisations and talent is I always calculate the average cost per hire at around about £6,000 and that's before you get that person onboarded and get them built up to speed and so on in regards to where they are performing their role on a day-to-day basis at a level that business wants. So if you've got high labour turnover because your employer brand and culture isn't where it needs to be that's going to be a cost that businesses hemorrhage and when we talk about being cost effective that's one of the biggest things that we can do is develop that culture and I always look at the employer brand as like an operating system of a business. So you can add all the fancy apps you like, perks, benefits, shiny initiatives but if that operating system underneath is clinky, inconsistent or outdated everything else struggles and for me employer brand quickly governs the entire employee life cycle.Recruitment, onboarding, development, performance, reward, progression. You don't always notice it when it's working at its best but I'll tell you what you definitely notice it when it's not.
Beth
Okay so we've established that your employer brand is definitely something you kind of need to be paying attention to and something that you really can't kind of afford to ignore but I think a lot of people assume that employer branding requires a big investment you know but we know organisations with smaller budgets actually can build a really effective employer brand. Can you give some examples of ways in which organisations can enhance their employer brand on a limited budget?
Jonathan
Yeah absolutely and I think that's one of the biggest myths around employee brand is that you need a big budget and we've found that you don't. Some of the most powerful employer brand moments can cost absolutely nothing they just require attention and one of the ways that we've done this here at Great Place To Work is really focus on the middle tier and future leaders within an organisation. The way I always see it, senior leaders can set the vision, can talk about values, culture and standards but if that frontline management who live it are on the frontline every single day don't do that and they're not having one-to-ones and they're not explaining decisions, we see a real fall off in that message getting throughout an organisation.That middle tier that I mentioned they're the ones delivering tough messages, recognising great work and setting the tone to people within the organisation. If your employer brand doesn't land at that level it doesn't land at all. That's exactly why in leading the Great Place To Work way we focus so heavily on everyday leadership behaviours not just leadership theory but nine leadership behaviours.These nine practical areas aren't abstract ideas they focus around day-to-day things in an organisation. So these are inspire, speak, listen, thank, develop, care, include, celebrate and hire. Middle managers are the translators between strategy and reality.If they're confident, aligned and trusted to lead in that way your employer brand becomes consistent. If they're not it fragments very very quickly.
Seema
Yeah definitely I think I've definitely seen that with lots of organisations and fundamentally also it's the leaders role modelling those as well which will then obviously impact how your mid-level managers are kind of behaving as well. I guess some of the other things that I've seen with some clients that I've worked with again this was a charity client actually where they very much focused on the culture, the ethos of them as a business as well and not the kind of those perks. They didn't have the budget for things like gym discounts and free snacks or free breakfast but what they did do was actually give time.So actually individuals were given a CSR day essentially to take time off either as an individual or as a team. So again it's going back to the culture and creating that kind of camaraderie and all these things that we talk about that really feed into an organisation with high levels of trust as well. And so you know that really helped in terms of aligning to the values of the organisation but also that individual as well.So it was again it's a two-way relationship which is really important when you think about sort of that employer brand. Other I guess things that are effective in terms of organisations with those limited budgets is using social media where you can really share some of those employee stories. I see a lot of organisations whether you've got new joiners starting, really announcing and celebrating that on LinkedIn. But also just using other sort of forms of social media to show a day in the life and again it links back to how we're recruiting and actually really getting future talent or future employees to see what is it like to work, what does it look and feel like to work for the organisation. And I think that can be done quite effectively through some of the social media channels as well. But fundamentally what I would say is just create an employee voice, listen to your employees and fundamentally I guess you know one of the key ways of doing that is running a survey like we do at Great Place To Work.We use our own methodology on ourselves as an organisation to really understand you know what's working well, what are we really proud about in terms of our business and our organisation. But also what's not working well because that's the bit where you know we can really make a difference and change the way we're kind of building our culture, building our brand, employer brand as well.
BethSo you mentioned there around you know employee surveys and what an effective tool they can be for your employer brand and you know we know that our Trust Index survey that as you said we use internally at Great Place To Work as well is something that really helps clients in all sorts of areas when it comes to building their culture and improving their culture but also their employer brand as well. So could you elaborate a little bit on how working with us at Great Place To Work can help enhance your employer brand?
Seema
Yeah definitely. I guess there's probably two key ways. The first is obviously through the survey and the insights we can really capture through the data and really helping to then really understand and shape that for organisations.What does it mean for them? How can we connect it to their organisational context and really help them to highlight where they're doing really well and employees are really positive about aspects of that employee experience and that employer brand but also where there is more opportunities for them to focus and I think as I said I think the key thing is also understanding kind of where the organisation's at, the context and bringing those two together is really important and having those those conversations with our clients in terms of the data and and the wider context. The second area I think is essentially kind of that that piece around recognition, being a Great Place To Work either Certified and then that opportunity to be a Best Workplace in terms of our national lists and also our wider lists and I think that again it just is real proof of validation of that really strong employer brand for organisations.
Jonathan
It's one of those things Seema that I see first hand every single day. I obviously speak to a lot of senior leaders, a lot of high potential talent, people that I know and I don't just mean people who are coming to join us or ask what we do but people who are going applying for jobs elsewhere or are just in the labour market and so on and I hear it constantly oh I applied because I saw the Great Place To Work logo, we interviewed here because they're Great Place To Work Certified, we've just done our Trust Index internally and we scored this, how does that work and I think seeing that logo of ours in there that's employer brand in action and I think Certification isn't just decoration it's a signal of trust and I think that's one of the biggest things that Great Place To Work can do for any organisation just really give that signal of trust.
Beth
Yeah I think that like you're saying that kind of third-party recognition can be such a powerful part of your employer brand and really bring all those benefits we're talking about around employee pride, advocacy, retention, recruitment etc. Talking about earlier that potential employees really are looking for culture as much if not more than they are for the job role and the salary and all that kind of stuff and if your employer brand is how you prove your culture to the outside world then that kind of Certification, Best Workplaces recognition, that kind of third-party validation is not the only way to do that it should be kind of part of a wider strategy but it's a really really powerful tool. So if I'm you know a client and I've put all this work into creating an EVP and building my employer brand and all of that kind of stuff how do I then kind of measure the success of these efforts?
Jonathan
It's one of those Beth where you can look at so many different things and there's so many metrics that you can look at as an organisation, employee engagement, retention, time to fill your roles, your lower recruitment costs, promotion rates, profit at the end of all that but I think one of the simple things that I like to ask people who are coming up to the end of their probationary period it's just a simple question just to see what's happened.So in regards to your experience during your first six months were your expectations met in regards to employer brand and it's an open question it's something we like to discuss and understand more and it gives us a real insight into if what we're saying is true is that being lived throughout our organisation?
Seema
Yeah I think 100% you know those conversations are so key in terms of measuring it from a qualitative perspective but also I guess you just the the survey the Trust Index survey really helps to measure you know how well the employer brand is being embedded particularly when you look at that kind of engagement index because that's one of those kind of outcome measures and it's it's got statements around advocacy and commitment to the organisation so again that's a really key measure to track in terms of the engagement index but also there's I guess you know links as well between engagement and and retention so for some organisations just even doing some more powerful analytics looking at you know the trends and linkage between engagement and retention again more longitudinally can really be quite impactful for organisations and I think you know as Jonathan measured through your employer brand whether that's directly or indirectly and fundamentally kind of goes back to having those leaders all contributing to those nine behaviours but those leaders very much driving that experience which then is fundamentally is driving your culture of the organisation which essentially will drive that performance that end performance for businesses.
Beth
Okay so if we could just sum up our discussion with one final question today if you were to give people leaders one initial step to focus on for implementing employer brand on a limited budget what would it be and maybe Seema if you can start?
Seema
Yeah sure I think fundamentally for me it's just really listening to your employees whether that's running you know a survey or just having those open conversations just fundamentally finding out what people love about working for the organisation for the company but also where you can do things better and I think those insights will really give you an authentic foundation to build on and it you know the costs don't have to be huge around this but it's just about really the behavioural side and just essentially listening to your people and then really then communicating with confidence what makes it a great place to work as well.
Jonathan
I think you're so spot on there Seema and I think one of the biggest you mentioned listening and communication there they're huge parts of the leadership behaviour aren't they for me that was what I would be focusing on every leadership moment is an employer brand moment your interviews your onboarding one-to-ones development conversations how we make decisions it's such a huge part of this and I think perks and so on might grab attention but leadership builds loyalty and trust which is what we're all about and that's why for me leadership is the most cost-effective employer branding tool you can have.
Beth
All right thanks guys it's been super interesting discussion so thank you both for joining me today.
Jonathan
Thanks for having us appreciate it.
Seema
Yeah it's been great thank you so much Beth.
Beth
And to our listeners hopefully you've gained some helpful tips and tricks on how you can build an effective employer brand on a limited budget. Thank you so much for tuning in make sure you're subscribed wherever you get your podcasts and signed up to our newsletter so you get notified when our next episode is live and to find out more about how we can help you measure and improve your company culture visit us at greatplacetowork.co.uk